E349 Tyler Levenson of Afterlife Explores Bad Habits and Artistic Ambition on The Pain That Shapes Us

Tyler Levenson: What's up? It's Tyler from Afterlife, and you're listening to The Itch.

KC: You're listening to The Itch. My name is KC.

Dan: My name is Dan.

Aaron: And I'm Aaron. And this week we're scratching The Itch to explore the Afterlife, particularly The one fronted by Tyler Levenson. He is our guest on account of his band having a new album called The Pain That Shapes Us, which will be coming out on November 6th on Mascot Records.

Dan: So all of us have known about Afterlife for quite some time, just simply because Tyler's a nice guy. He's known throughout Shiprocked, and obviously we've been on Shiprocked the last couple years. So when they dropped their first single, Bad Habits, it made quite an impression on me. I remember texting that song immediately to the guys and was like, we gotta reach out to Tyler. I think it's about time to get him on the show soon.

Aaron: It was a good call. We've heard the entire album now, and it still is one of the best songs on it. It was a great choice for first single, in my opinion. And you know, this is something I definitely mean as a compliment. I think Tyler would actually appreciate this because he seems to appreciate honesty. He even kind of mentioned wanting that kind of feedback. But this is not a band that I've connected with that much in the past, but this album kind of works for me. And the more I listen to it, the more it worked for me. This is a band that I think is going to win over a lot of people with this record.

Dan: Yeah, I agree. It's definitely an attempt at a more mainstream style. And I think that for— it's always an interesting debate to me because I think people are always like, oh, they're selling out, they're selling out. It's like, well, they could just be getting better. You know, that's like not really mainstream. I think that they're just maturing. That's not necessarily selling out, but just people become better at their instruments, better at singing, things like that. And they want to explore that. Not everybody wants to do the same thing all the time. And so I truly appreciate it because, they had— I think he even mentioned, it's his first time, on a song called Empty, that he really tries to sing his heart out. And it's a beautiful song.

KC: Yeah, that's the one thing that sticks out listening to this new album is just all the different tones that each song kind of has throughout. And I think a lot of fans are going to be surprised at some of them, but I think it's gonna satisfy the hardcore fans that have stuck with Afterlife this entire time.

Dan: I'm always curious to see how this stuff translates live too, because, especially for a band that's so used to being heavy all the time. Like, how are they going to adjust to the more melodic mainstream sound? And I'm not saying everything on the album by any means is all like melodic mainstream. Like the whole album is definitely an Afterlife album. You know, it has that same feel that their other previous albums have as well. It's just this one I think is a little bit more... I think more people are, like you said, I think more people are gonna like it.

Aaron: And to Dan's point a minute ago about sometimes you just get better, one thing that I really enjoyed about this conversation was that— and not to say that other songwriters aren't— but you really can tell from talking with him how seriously Tyler takes his craft and what he's doing. He's— this isn't one of our episodes where we go track by track through a new album, but it almost feels like one at points because he gets really specific and has so much insight about a number of songs on this album and just the making of it in general. And so I— we just, we always just love hearing about the process, the creative process behind these things.

Dan: That's my favorite part, is hearing how everybody comes up with their songs and their writing process, things like that. Like, it's because everybody's so unique in how they do what they do.

KC: Well, and the fact that we've known of Tyler for so long because of Shiprocked and knowing that he is such a music fan, it was just fun kind of doing a deep dive conversation into certain things, especially like Burning Questions and whatnot. You can really tell his music fandom from his responses to some stuff.

Aaron: Yeah, he's— for all the reasons you guys just mentioned, he's an easy guy to root for. They're an easy band to want to see succeed. And so I'm definitely excited for this record and the potential that it has to help them make it to the next level.

Dan: We say this a couple of times throughout the interview, but I also just want to mention it right now too, because we've already been talking the album up even before the interview starts. So The Pain That Shapes Us, that comes out November 6th.

KC: So without any further ado, here's our conversation with Tyler Levenson of Afterlife.

Aaron: One of the reasons we wanted to have this conversation, Tyler, is to right a wrong, is the way I'm putting it. So we've been on Shiprocked for the past like four years.

Tyler Levenson: Okay, same.

Aaron: Right. Despite being on this boat every year and being known for making yourself very available when you were there, only one of us has actually spoken to you in that time. And—

Tyler Levenson: That's crazy.

Aaron: Yeah, it, uh, I'll let him tell his own story.

Tyler Levenson: Sure.

Dan: So a couple of years ago, I was the person that ratted out Joey Varela of VRSTY for telling people to grab your butt. And normally I'm not a narc.

Tyler Levenson: Oh, here we go!

Dan: But if I remember correctly, I did see like two people violate you before saying something. And honestly, in hindsight, I probably should have said something after the first one.

Tyler Levenson: Oh, man, dude, that was— that was a lot. I mean, and I get it. I get it for sure. But it just kept happening and happening and happening. You know, four or five days of that, I'm just like, all right, like, damn it, Joey, you know? And obviously there's, I get it's a joke, but I was like, it just keeps happening. And I didn't know why it was happening at first. Like, I didn't see his post, I didn't see anything. I was just like, okay, it's one of those years. All right. And yeah, I mean, it's Shiprocked, so it's one of those things where it's like not expected, but that was just over, like, within the first 15 minutes of being on the boat, it was like, someone better pay me for this, man. Yeah, that was great.

Dan: Are you planning to be on the boat this year? And if so, how many years is this for you?

Tyler Levenson: As of right now, I will not be on the boat this year. I haven't missed a year since 2022, which was the pandemic year. So I did '22, '23, '24, '25, and '26. So it's, I think, five years.

KC: Yeah, sounds right.

Tyler Levenson: And this upcoming year would be six, but we're not— I won't be on it due to something we're doing at the time of it. So I guess that's, uh, which if you guys are going on Shiprocked, you will absolutely hear about it in like the next week.

KC: All right, fair enough.

Tyler Levenson: So, yeah, it'll be great. I mean, honestly, I think maybe a year off will be good, and then maybe we'll see where it's at in '28, and maybe the band can come back and play it.

Dan: And one of the things that we absolutely love about Shiprocked is it's always a cool thing to see the artists having just as much fun as the fans. And you're always side stage, you're always right in front of the stage on the— in the smaller venue areas, and you always seem to be having just as much fun and be as excited for the full experience just like we are for the festival.

Tyler Levenson: Yeah, I mean, because, at the end of the day, I'm still a music fan and I'm always going to be a music fan. And I think Shiprocked is one of those experiences that you can't get anywhere else, regardless if it's another rock cruise or another metal cruise or whatever it is. I think there's such a community within Shiprocked that makes it unique and just so much fun. And since being on it for so many years, I've really connected with a lot of the community. And I don't really see those people unless they come to a show or whatever the case is. So it's like a big reunion. And I know it's really big with that community. So yeah, I'm just trying to have a good time. I'm on vacation, you know. I'm obviously— it's a great networking opportunity, and despite that, it's just a really good time. I enjoy it.

KC: We do too.

Aaron: I think it's cool. So, you know, there are a number of things that are just kind of like part of the ingrained culture of the boat at this point, and you, I think, are part of that genuinely. So, I mean, we're gonna have some Shiprockers who are, on one hand, probably disappointed to hear that you won't be there. Though I mean, it sounds like what you've got brewing will be very much worth it and also probably something that they'll be able to check out.

Tyler Levenson: I will say this too. It is going to be accessible to Shiprockers at some point after Shiprocked. It's— I won't say too much about it, but, you know, if you won't see me on Shiprocked, you will definitely see us at these shows.

Aaron: This all totally tracks. You got an album coming out in November, which we'll get into it in a second here. And so naturally one would assume that some dates would follow.

Tyler Levenson: Yes, definitely.

KC: All right, let's get into the new album. The Pain That Shapes Us comes out November 6th. It's been five years since Afterlife's last album, Part of Me. What sticks out most to you about making this album compared to that one?

Tyler Levenson: So with this album, we really wanted to approach things in a different way as opposed to the last record. So the last record, we had this block of time to write the record. And also that last record was written in just like unfortunate circumstances. You know, we go in the studio March of 2020, halfway through the recording session, the pandemic happened. So everything was put on hold. So the record then had to be done in these short, incremental pieces of time. So we really didn't have too much time to sit with the record and really look at what we have, which in turn, you know, the record is incredible. I love that record. So it all worked out. But coming into this record, we wanted to do something just slightly different. We wanted to have planned like pre-writing sessions before the album. So we did a ton of writing pretty much all of last year up until we went in the studio. And then when we went in the studio, we did like three weeks in July, three in August and so on and so forth. So we had time to sit with the record, figure out, you know, does this feel the best? Is this the best way this can sound? And then when we go back in the studio, we tweak it that way. At the end, everything feels like it has a place. We're not down to the last minute saying, oh, we need this type of song, and something just gets put on the record that may or may not belong on the record. So everything that people will hear on this record was purposeful and, you know, planned for the most part.

KC: Did your writing approach change at all during this time, or did it feel like you picked up right where you left off?

Tyler Levenson: I think the writing approach elevated certainly on this. We worked with a lot of different people. It's our first time working with a producer named Austin Coupe, and he wrote honestly around seven to eight songs that made the record. And a lot of his recent work is, you know, he did the new Thousand Below record, he's done Papa Roach singles. He did all the Ninth Key, that new artist. He's done a lot, almost all their stuff. And, you know, he's been a friend of ours for a long time. We've always admired him as a songwriter. So being able to work with him was incredible. He helped write my favorite song on the record, which is Empty. And the story behind that song is just such a funny one as well. But we got to work with him. We also got to work with our longtime producer, Zach Jones. who mixed the record, mastered the record, wrote, produced. Like, he's done everything for us from the very beginning. So to put those two in a room together, and I think the product will really speak for itself. I'm stoked on that.

Dan: So I gotta ask now, what is the funny story behind Empty?

Tyler Levenson: So Empty, so it was a writing session we had scheduled in Orlando, Florida. It was very, kind of like last minute. So we had to put it together. We ended up getting this Airbnb to write in and we just set up like this makeshift studio in like the living room. I'm talking like this thing was as bare bones as we can get. But, you know, at the time, that's what we had to do before we actually went into the studio. And this Airbnb, like every night we would find like a new cockroach every single night. And you're like, what are we doing here? Like, this is awful. So we would kill them and just like made like a crime scene in the Airbnb of it. And like, then got the name. We coined the name of the Airbnb, the Roach Motel. And surprising enough, that's where Empty came out of. And it just happened in such a way like that. Like we were writing, it started as a demo from our drummer. Then I was like sitting in the living room writing, and then I heard the melody that was happening in the room and I was like, all right, everyone get out. Austin, me and you, let's get to work. And we just— they went downtown for, you know, a few drinks and whatever. And we came back and I had the whole idea of the song and we played it for our drummer. He started crying because he just couldn't believe it. It just— it happened in like the worst circumstances to get the best product. It was awesome.

Aaron: So like a lot of tracks on this album, and there's a— it's a very emotional one. Was that— and it sounds like it came to you really quickly. Does that have like a cathartic feeling with it when you come up with something like that? You're like, I think I just tapped into something I needed to get out, you know?

Tyler Levenson: Oh, 100%. I mean, I'm— every time I listen to the song, there's a specific part in the song that I just inevitably get goosebumps. And it's the last part where it's like the big kind of like synthwave breakdown kind of thing that goes on at the end of the song. And even when we were recording the music video, I was watching the actress do her parts and like I was getting emotional watching it because it's like, you know, the song starts to feel tangible. It starts to feel real when you're seeing something like that happen. And yeah, it's a song that I've always wanted to write. I've always wanted to have a song that was all singing for the most part. And this just felt right. And it's a very special song to not only myself but the rest of the band.

Dan: Well, Afterlife has pulled from a few different corners of heavy music, you know, metalcore, rap metal, or nu metal, whatever you want to call it, more traditional metal. And The Pain That Shapes Us seems to kind of open up that palette even further. So how would you describe Afterlife's sound on this album?

Tyler Levenson: I think this record, you will absolutely get the best of what Afterlife does. You know, you see that on songs like Bad Habits, which kind of led itself to why that was going to be the first single. I thought that was the best version of what we did in the past, just elevated. It was a great reintroduction track to the band. And, you know, it's a good song at the end of the day. And I thought it was the best song to put out first. And then you have songs like Bite, which are very true to Afterlife— aggressive, angry, heavy, just very in your face. And then, you know, there's songs on the record that we wanted to expand on a little more. A Thousand Warnings being one of them. It has like a familiar sound to it, but we wanted to do something that felt like we channeled Gojira and Meshuggah and even like Knocked Loose in times for that song. And we wanted that song to have a real hypnotic kind of draw to it. That's why the whole last half of that song is just like that syncopated guitar and drums. Like, we just wanted that to feel like primal almost. And then I would also say the song track three, Vertigo, is actually a very interesting departure for the band because like when we were writing that song specifically, I would drive to the studio every day through the mountains and I would listen to the Private Music by Deftones. I would listen to the new Thornhill record, Bodies. And I just loved how there was like this atmospheric feeling to those records and those songs and to those bands. And I wanted to do that in my own way. And I feel like that's how Vertigo really came about.

Dan: It's really funny you said that about Bad Habits because we have a group chat that's been going on for years. And that was a song like when that song was released, I think I sent the link to the song, and was like, hey guys, you should check this out. I could really get into more of this, that's for sure.

Tyler Levenson: Dude, when we were writing that one too, we were like— so originally the first version of that song sounded more like Linkin Park than how the track does now. But we were like, you know what, let's see if we can push this a little bit. We added that really snappy guitar hook right before the first chorus. And, you know, it just, it took shape into something that we didn't expect and ultimately ended up loving a lot more. So yeah, I think that is definitely a mainstay sound we might explore a bit more. Certainly explore what Empty has done because it's certainly our fastest growing streaming track across every platform right now. It's doing really well over on TikTok. It's just the connection with the fans is really good on that one. And I would like to explore like Thousand Warnings a little more, just like more of that like groovy kind of like aggressive metal in a way.

KC: The musicianship across the whole band feels noticeably more developed on this record. Beyond just logging years of shows together, what do you feel drove that growth?

Tyler Levenson: We knew what this record meant for the band in a way. You know, it's the first record in five years. We could have very well went back and wrote Part of Me Part 2, and it probably would have done fine. But with this, we were like, we haven't had any new music since the single Bleed You Dry that we put out in 2024. And that had a massive reaction. I mean, it was an independent song for the band. It did it, you know, it's like so many millions of streams now. And that was heavy. Very, very heavy for the band. So we're like, people like this look, what else can we try to see if people like? And I feel that we all have matured not only as songwriters but like musical palettes since the last record. So we wanted to approach this and, and kind of show that maturity in the music, but also have a really good time writing the music as well, you know. Not take it too serious, but also serious enough to where this is a cohesive product, and that the musicianship and the presentation of it is good. And I think what we approach with this record differently too is we wanted to add much more, like a lot more of the synth aspect. So we did everything analog. It was all live, like boards and everything we did in the studio. All the guitars are real live reamped, so it gives it a unique feeling that wasn't on our previous records.

Dan: It's very interesting that you mentioned that the release in 2024 was independent because that's actually one of our recurring topics over the past couple of years is in particular is the benefits and drawbacks of signing with the label versus going independent. So you guys released that single as independent and then you guys signed with Mascot Records for this release. So I'm really curious what led to that decision.

Tyler Levenson: So we put out Bleed You Dry in 2024 independently through a company called Vidya. It's a distribution company, and the song just took off. Like, it went crazy on TikTok. You know, it was going well live. You know, the merch was selling. So we're like, all right, well, there's definitely something here. So we went out on a tour that fall with Zero 9:36, and during that time, our manager approached Mascot Records about the band. So Ron, the head A&R and the president, flew to Nashville to see the band at this shitty venue. And he was just in love. Like, he almost went in the mosh pit, you know? He was really into it. And it was so surprising to see. And after that, we're all talking after the show and he's like, I really want to sign the band. So, we do the whole tour, we get home, everyone's in contact, whatever. And we officially signed the deal with Mascot in January of last year. And it's super interesting going from our previous label to this one now because they both operate massively in different ways. And yeah, it's been a really, really great time with the label so far. He's a great guy. I mean, he signed Nickelback. Like, he knows what's good. And he's a great tastemaker. And every conversation we've had with him has always been very supportive, and he loves what we're doing. And one thing that stuck with me when we were writing this record, he goes, you know what, don't water down what this band is. You guys know what this band is more than anyone else. Write what you think is best. And it just stuck with me because I assume in some situations labels are not like that, you know. He's like, don't go out and be any other artist but yourself. We signed Afterlife for a reason. We didn't sign XYZ band clone or whatever the case is. So it's like, it really helped us going into the studio knowing that that support was there.

KC: Yeah, as outside observers of Mascot, we kind of feel that they give a lot of creativity to their artists.

Tyler Levenson: I mean, I think it's good for an artist to have that luxury. And they've been very supportive about everything we wanted to do, not only the music, but the artistic direction for the artwork, the music videos, the branding of the record. And it's all been really, really great. Like, everything's come out awesome. So that's, you know, if something's successful and performing well, don't rock the boat, I suppose.

Aaron: I'm excited for people to hear this album. As we've been listening to it in preparation for this, it's been— it's definitely been a grower for me. I mean, kind of to the point that you— I think you're touching on earlier. Every time I listen to the album, I'm definitely a little more convinced that it is the best stuff that you guys have done. Always, I think, something you want to strive for.

Tyler Levenson: And that's always interesting to hear because I love our previous music.

Aaron: Yeah, it's not an insult to that for sure.

Tyler Levenson: Well, that's what I'm excited about is that like, I love that. And we've never been a band that has had like an overwhelmingly negative response to new music. Like, everything we put out has seemed to go over with our current fan base as well as a new fan base. And we are gaining a lot of new fans off this new music, and everyone is loving it. Like, statistically, I think we are the biggest we have ever been. When it comes to the numbers, so it's awesome. Like you know, I see it time and time again. A band will release a song. Comment section is filled with oh, well, I don't know if I like this or da da da da da. And thankfully we've never really had that response. And you know we might when the record's out. I don't know, but I know that I love every song on the record. So at the end of the day, it's not going to bother me if someone doesn't like it because someone out there does or will like the song.

KC: 100%.

Tyler Levenson: And if anyone thinks that we've gone soft on this record, I mean, they're gonna definitely be mistaken for sure.

Aaron: No, I don't think they're gonna— I don't think they'll feel that way.

Tyler Levenson: Well, someone heard Empty and they're like, oh my God, they're singing. And I'm like, dude, you guys have no idea. But I think the cool thing is like, we wrote this record and I think there's something for everyone, every kind of Afterlife listener, every kind of new listener, but it's done in a cohesive manner. It's not sporadic and there's not like, why, what is going on here? So I think that's just a really another awesome thing about the new record.

Aaron: To your point about how cohesive it is, one of the things that I love is I love any album that starts off with like a thesis statement, and obviously the title of this album says something in itself. But then, in this case, you start off with A Thousand Warnings and the chorus saying, why do we choose to suffer? Which, when I hear that song, that tracks with me and stays with me for the rest of the album as I'm listening through it, because I think that it's a theme that flows throughout and a really good philosophical question to launch the record.

Tyler Levenson: And when we were writing that song, I was like, man, I love looking at things in like a wide lens, and that's kind of where that song came about because it's like we as people, we as humanity are so blinded by our own— like a lot of the issues are self-caused by people these days. And it's like, we are given so many opportunities to thrive, so many opportunities to be better. so many opportunities to save what we have. And for some reason, our human nature is just, we got to destroy this. You know, we do all these things like there's another option out there for us, and there's really not. And I wanted to really pose that question in the song. It's like, why do we choose this? What are we like? What about us is making us want to live in this sufferable situation? And I think it just sounds cool at the end of the day. I think that's the coolest thing about it. It just sounds cool.

Aaron: I love that. I mean, it's a topic that's been on my mind a lot lately, and maybe that's why the song resonated quickly, is to your point, it's like, particularly, why do we choose to suffer? Why do we feel the need to make others suffer? The idea of like scarcity, the idea of for me to thrive, somebody else has to be pushed down. Which is just not true in nearly any situation. So I think that's something that is very much worth exploring, and I'm glad that you guys decided to do that on this one.

Tyler Levenson: Yeah, and for the sonic landscape of the song, I was like, there's got to be something behind this. It can't be some hollow, you know, like it could be anything. But I wanted that song to feel heavy instrumentally, but also topically. I felt like that song had to have a really solid message to it, and, and I love the message behind it now, so it's awesome.

Aaron: And another one of my favorites on the album is Bad Habits. You guys talked about that earlier, partly because there still is a little bit of residual Linkin Park in there, which I always enjoy.

Tyler Levenson: Sure.

Aaron: But mainly because it kind of takes that choosing to suffer idea and brings it home to a personal place with this idea of the tension between denying or accepting the reality of the impact your behavior has on other people. I think it's a great transition from those songs into each other.

Tyler Levenson: It's a very true-to-me song too, and I think that's why it was super easy to write about, because I go through these situations where, specifically when writing music, I am very, very, critical on everything. So it does delay a lot of progress in certain aspects, and it's a terrible habit of mine. But I think it's because I care so much about something.

Aaron: Hmm.

Tyler Levenson: And it's just one of my bad habits. And, you know, the opening lyric in the verse is like, so tell me how to face myself when every other word is a cry for help. It's like, how can you? It also, in my eyes, is like, how do I seek help? How do I ask for help? Because I'm terrible at asking for help. I'd rather figure something out myself, go through the pain, go through the struggle, do everything alone to show that I'm capable instead of just asking for help. So I think it's just a deeper look into issues that I deal with almost every day.

Aaron: Exactly. I think that's relatable to everybody.

Tyler Levenson: The bad habits, you know?

KC: Yeah.

Tyler Levenson: And also, the lyrics sound cool. Yeah, my bad habits are back at it. That's like a big thing. I was like, how could I take these feelings and put them out there correctly, but also make it sound cool to the listener, make it impactful to the listener? And that was a big step up I wanted to do on this record. And I focused on it on every single song. How can I say what I want to say, have it mean something, but also make it feel relatable and catchy? And, you know, that's all just like the songwriting type of stuff.

KC: I think impact is a good word to use when describing this whole album because a lot of the songs are very impactful.

Tyler Levenson: Yeah, that was another thing too. We wanted it to not feel like at any point in the record you could skip the song. We wanted it to feel like, oh man, what's next? Bam! What's next? Bam! What's next? But also allow that dynamic to bring you up and then bring you down, but not to the point where you're bored.

KC: Yes.

Tyler Levenson: You know, always like an upbeat energy throughout everything. And that was a real test when we were writing that song Crash and Burn on the record. We wanted to do something that felt kind of clubby and have this constant beat to the whole song. And we're like, you know, the first demo of that felt very Rob Zombie and White Zombie and Static-X. Like that was the goal for that song from the very beginning. And it evolved as it is, but I think it really still comes across in the song rather well.

Dan: Yes. You know, we spent some time talking about what you wanted to say with this record. It's time to bring that full circle. What do you want listeners to take away most when they hear this new album?

Tyler Levenson: I want our fans and listeners to know that we are so back. Like we are so back. But I think with this record, people are going to continue to develop and grow and evolve with the band. Just based on what we've seen so far, people are really, really loving the direction of the music. Not only instrumentally, they're loving how my voice has developed over time with the record, the subject matter, you know, how everything is presented in the music videos and the artwork. We're starting to see a deeper connection with our fans, which I think is only something that anyone in a band could ask for is that your connection with your listeners is becoming deeper. And I think that is a good thing because that just keeps them around much longer. But what I've noticed when I was writing the record and the title of the record specifically is that the record feels bigger than the band, bigger than me. It feels very communal in a way, which is kind of what led to the title of The Pain That Shapes Us. It's not about me moreso anymore. I'm speaking through myself, but also factoring in how our listeners could be feeling and all these other people that are fans of the band could be feeling. So to me, it just feels very for them, by us, you know, communal aspect of the music. And I hope they feel that. It seems like that they are.

Aaron: Yep, that's very cool.

Tyler Levenson: It's one of those things where it's like the last thing was recorded and I'm like, holy crap, it's done. You know what I mean? Like, it's a wild feeling that this record's going to be out to everyone and they're going to hear— between the last one and now, you know, five years of time will do. And I think it's an incredible follow-up to the previous record. I think it puts the band in a completely different space. I'm really excited, and so far it's been great.

Aaron: Yeah, as people who have been fortunate enough to hear it early, I think we're fans. So yeah, absolutely.

Tyler Levenson: Awesome. Because I'm waiting for the day I do an interview and someone's like, yeah, I don't like it. I was like, well, I'll wait because I'm gonna ask. I would love to know why. Like, that is a big thing with me is I don't steer away from criticism and I don't steer away from what someone might not like. It's interesting to get that perspective because I think, if you could take it constructively, it's only gonna be beneficial. I mean, granted, if someone was like, oh, I don't like it because XYZ. And I'm like, well, there's people who don't like things for really silly reasons. So I guess you got to take it with a grain of salt, right?

Dan: Yeah.

Tyler Levenson: I don't like the song because it's too short. I'm like, what? That's not legit. Like I mean, I get it. Like, the shorter the songs, the better replay value of it. I mean, the band Thrown has songs that are two minutes long and it's awesome. You know what I mean? So yeah, I'm all for it.

Aaron: Our last section is called Burning Questions, and it is kind of a pool of questions we choose from to ask everybody we speak to. Before we actually get into those, I'm gonna bring the conversation back around in another sense, and we're gonna— I added a Tyler-specific burning question.

Tyler Levenson: Cool.

Aaron: So for this one, If you could add a band besides your own to a future Shiprocked lineup, who would you add?

Tyler Levenson: Oh man, you know what's so funny about this? You know Justin from Shiprocked, right? Justin Price?

KC: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tyler Levenson: He asked me the same question on the boat when, the previous year, and I was like, oh my God, like, if I could see this band on Shiprocked, it would be so sick: Every Time I Die.

KC: Yeah.

Aaron: Okay.

Tyler Levenson: Because one, I mean, they are broken up, so it's never gonna happen, but I think that band would embody the energy of Shiprocked. The show would be insane. It was just— it would feel like a perfect band, in my opinion, for Shiprocked because it's just— they're like kind of like that party aspect. It's like really conscious lyrics. They're fun and a good live band. But I think if I were to say an active band, oh man, I think seeing Bad Omens on Shiprocked again would be incredible. And it'll probably never happen, but I remember the last year we actually played, they were on it, and it was just like— I think you guys can understand this feeling. Certain bands, when they take the stage at Shiprocked, it's their show. Like, there's this energy that comes over the crowd you know, it's— there's such specific artists that are able to do that, and I think they would be one of them again. And it's just a cool thing to see. And then you see it every year, you know, when the Stowaways play.

KC: Yeah.

Tyler Levenson: It's like a specific energy that comes across. Or you catch a band that's on the come up in one of the smaller rooms— Fox Lake in the smaller room on this previous year. You know, it's just there's such a unique energy. I think that's like what the best thing about Shiprocked, honestly, is.

KC: We were fortunate enough to have Alan on our show and we were able to pitch Aurorawave to be on the boat and he took our suggestion.

Tyler Levenson: Funny enough, you mention that band...

Aaron: Huh? File that away for later...

KC: Yeah.

Dan: Yeah.

Tyler Levenson: They were the perfect Shiprocked band, honestly. They took every opportunity to be in front of every possible person they could.

KC: Yep.

Tyler Levenson: You know, they have that rock, metal, reggae kind of vibe, which is like straight up what would be the best band. And, you know, obviously they're back on it this upcoming year. So it's very cool that they, you know, because I do think a lot of bands probably don't take Shiprocked in its full opportunity. I know we certainly did and have over the years. And, you know, obviously they're pros for that.

Aaron: You love to see that. I mean, it was— yeah, you guys do it, they did it, Barbarians of California did it this past year. They're filming music videos and stuff like that on the boat and really kind of making the most of that experience. It's neat to see.

Tyler Levenson: I mean, come on, how often do you get to be on a cruise ship that's a rock and metal festival around like 4,000 or 5,000 just crazed music lovers? It's like you don't get that often. So I feel like it goes a long way when you take every opportunity to meet everyone. To enjoy what Shiprocked does, not only the shows, but all the activations, the excursions, the culture. I think it's very, very important.

Dan: So switching gears a little bit, what is a song or an album that changed your life?

Tyler Levenson: Oh man, I will say this. The album that got me into heavy music was Bless the Martyr by Norma Jean. That was the first heavy artist that I listened to, and it captivated me. And in this respect, changed my life. I just, I couldn't believe that that kind of music was possible because I wasn't a huge music listener as a kid, believe it or not. I heard that on MTV or something and I was like, this is insane. Memphis Will Be Laid to Waste. I was like, this is insane. I was like, this is crazy. I got to listen to this. And I think that really put me on a pathway to where I'm at now. I mean, obviously Hybrid Theory, Meteora, just unbelievable classics. I mean, there is a reason why they're still listened to to this day, like top to bottom, just perfect albums. And the fact that they were back to back is even crazier.

KC: Yeah.

Tyler Levenson: Like, as an artist, you know, you imagine writing Hybrid Theory and being like, oh, we're never gonna top this. Meteora is like, I think, unanimously better in ways, and it's just crazy. I think that really has changed my musical taste and whatnot. And then obviously hearing the self-titled Slipknot just further took that to the aggression and the extreme. And I was like, this is nuts, I want to be in a band. And honestly, I wasn't— I only started playing music in my late 20s, so I've only been doing it for not even 10 years. So it's— I'm very fortunate, to be honest.

KC: Very cool. If you could put your name on any song, what's a song that you wish you had written?

Tyler Levenson: Oh my God...

Aaron: It's only the entire spectrum of all music history you get to choose from.

Tyler Levenson: It would be so sick to write Rocket Man. Like, move over, Elton John, bro. I'm sorry. Like, it's though that song is just influential in itself. I mean, that's such a hard question because or Thriller by Michael Jackson. Oh, Afterlife's new song Thriller. I'd be like, what? Like, you know what? It's like these songs that transcend when they came out. I mean, there's so many. Dire Straits. Bam bam. Like that's just such an iconic like guitar intro. I mean. Yeah, I don't know. That's a very difficult question. I think those three. I mean, yeah, I don't know. Bohemian Rhapsody would have been sick.

Aaron: It's a good portfolio you're building here.

Tyler Levenson: I mean, if there was like current music, I mean, I could go— I mean, dude, I think Second Chance, Shinedown. Like, oh my God, I don't think I could ever hold a candle to Brent, but that would be an incredible— just simply like, I wrote that song. I'm like, oh my God, you know. It's just nuts.

Aaron: Going back to your music, how about a song that you love to play live? And we can even go so far as to say that you're looking forward to playing live. Maybe you haven't started yet, something from the new album.

Tyler Levenson: I'll give you both.

Aaron: All right.

Tyler Levenson: I think out of our current catalog of songs that we play live, I love playing a song called PSA. It's from our very first full-length album. There's just some energy about that song live, and it's just the crowd loves it every time. I love it because it allows me to kind of talk a little shit on stage, which is great. I love that. Envy is another one that I just love playing live. It just hits in every part of the song, and I just— I think it's just a fun vocal performance for me. And that same goes for Bleed You Dry. Now, for the songs that I can't wait to play, A Thousand Warnings, 100%. And I'll give everyone a little a clue on that. We're opening the set with that.

Aaron: Okay, sweet.

Tyler Levenson: We have this really insane intro that we built that leads into that song, and I'd just— I'm hearing that riff now hit live for the first time, and people are just gonna be on the rail, banging their heads. I can't wait. I think— a song that I'm the most nervous to play is probably Empty, just because it's such a different kind of song for us. But I can't wait to play that one too. I think that's going to be really emotional and connective live. I'll tell you what songs I don't want to play anymore, that's for sure.

Aaron: Do it.

Tyler Levenson: Because those do exist. I think it'd be pretty good.

Aaron: I don't think we've ever asked that before, like, what are you looking forward to retiring from your set? That's great.

Tyler Levenson: So we have a song in the set, I'll speak on behalf of everyone else in the band. We have a song in the set called Giving Back the Pain. It's another one from our first album that everyone probably besides me is ready to give it the ax. But it's hard because the crowd reaction to that song is so nuts. It's also like our third most streamed song. So it's like at some point, but we're definitely more interested in playing the new music right now for sure.

Dan: What would be a dream collaboration for you?

Tyler Levenson: So I've gotten this question a few times and I love it. I love this question because I always answer with things that people do not think would be like, yeah, I could say it'd be sick to be on, you know, Linkin Park, like very, very sick. But I think it'd be cool to do something that is completely outside our world. One of my favorite artists ever is an Irish folk pop singer-songwriter. His name is Dermot Kennedy. And then if we could do a song with him, like a chill, emotional, low-energy song, it would be perfect. I think that would be so much fun. I also think if we were to do something with a band in our world, despite how big they are, I think doing a song with Bring Me the Horizon would be so sick because of how much they push the envelope on what is possible. You know, they just did this song Dehumanized, and it's insane that a band of their size is able to go back to the roots and do a song like that. It's just incredible. And even on their last album, there were so many different influences— hyperpop, really, really aggressive rock. It just— it'd be fun because there'd be no limits. Yeah, there'd be no limits on what you could create with that band.

KC: Since you're such a music fan and attend these festivals and are fully engaged, what is a band that everyone should see live?

Tyler Levenson: I think— I mean, every time I've seen them, Knocked Loose. Oh yeah, I think everyone should see that band live if they haven't seen that band live. I mean, their performances on Shiprocked were terrifying.

Aaron: That's a great word for it.

Tyler Levenson: I remember I was watching it and I was like, this is actually scary. Like not even the crowd, just the performance had such a terrifying energy to it. And I remember when I saw them on Shiprocked, there was one part of the set where they just dropped out and they just all stared into the crowd for an awkward amount of time too. Like, it went on slightly longer than it should, and then right back into the set. And I was like, that is theatrics, baby. That is so awesome. And, I'm fortunate enough to know a couple guys in the band. And it's just like, that is— I think if you want to see a band live, you should go check that band out for sure.

Dan: Yes, they were definitely the talk of the town for the whole week.

Tyler Levenson: I don't think I've ever seen a band take over like that on Shiprocked. It was just incredible.

Dan: Yeah, well, the only one that would— I would give them a rival was House of Protection. Just because—

Tyler Levenson: In the theater or on the deck?

Dan: On the deck.

KC: On the deck.

Dan: Because he climbed the scaffolding and was playing guitar on top, which is like, what?

Tyler Levenson: I can imagine people were like, what is going— like, get down, you know? I didn't catch them on the deck, but I caught them in the theater, and it was pretty intense. And obviously, you know, if anyone knows anything about their guitar player, I mean, he was in The Chariot, and, you know, that band was intense. And their drummer was in Night Verses, which is just another insane band. So it makes sense that they're off the wall for sure.

Dan: As a dad, I was definitely worried. I was concerned for his safety for sure.

Tyler Levenson: I mean, I follow their band on social media and it seems like that is like a really recurring thing. Like, no matter how— the higher the better, to be completely honest.

KC: Yeah.

Tyler Levenson: He will climb it. So yeah, they're great.

Aaron: Last one here, because we kind of like to, when we have a chance, end on a note that's something we could put out and see if it happens in the future. So without asking for particular spoilers, what would be a dream tour for you?

Tyler Levenson: Dream tour for me? Are we talking realistic or like go for the gates?

Aaron: Your choice. I think I like realistic because I like to see if it happens.

Tyler Levenson: Yeah, if it would happen.

Aaron: But you can go for somebody that's not available.

Tyler Levenson: I think it would be really cool to tour with Dayseeker. I've done some live collab stuff with them on Shiprocked and at a few other things, and it just, it always seemed like it was so resonant, like it resonated so well with the crowd and the fans. And it'd be really cool to kind of do that every night or on a tour. And I think sonically it'd be really, really cool too. I think it'd be really cool to also put ourselves in like, are you familiar with like $uicideboy$?

KC: Yes.

Tyler Levenson: So they're doing a tour right now called Grey Day, and it's such an eclectic group of rappers. And I think it'd be super cool to have something like that in the rock and metal world where it's like, you know how they did Family Values in the '90s? You know, you have alternative artists, rock artists, rap artists, metal, all that stuff. I think that'd be something really, really cool and I'm surprised it hasn't happened just yet.

Dan: Yeah, I agree.

Tyler Levenson: I mean, there's also like, I would love to tour with Jutes, if you're familiar with him. I'm obsessed with the new record. I mean, it's so good. It has all these elements of the bands that I love but also with a fresh kind of take on it. I know that sounds like a pretty generic way to describe things, but it's the truth. It's like, I'm catching all these elements of bands that I grew up loving, but also hearing it in a new way. And it's— I think that's a great thing too. Yeah, I could probably— I mean, I would tour. I would love to tour with any bands that I actively listen to, which would be, which would be great.

KC: We're here for a Dayseeker, Afterlife, Jutes tour. That would be sick.

Tyler Levenson: I mean, it's already happening in Australia. I mean, it's Dayseeker, Jutes, Sace6, and Silent Planet. So it's like— it could happen, you know?

Aaron: So just get one more band in here. Come on, let's throw us on there.

Tyler Levenson: Aside from being personal friends with them, I love the music. I love the theatrics of the band. And they're also just really, really good. So I think that's a good thing is when you're on a tour and every band is bringing their own aspect of talent to the show and they're doing their job and they're making sure that you're not only here for the headliner, but you're here for this entire package of good music all night long. I think that's super important as well.

KC: Yes.

Aaron: Tyler, thank you so much for joining us. This has been a pleasure. I am definitely sad that we didn't— haven't really spoken before, but I'm glad we have this opportunity now. If we— we surely will run into you sometime before Shiprocked 2028.

Tyler Levenson: I hope so!

Aaron: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, in the meantime, it sounds like some big things going into the new year, so...

Tyler Levenson: Oh yeah.

Aaron: And then obviously The Pain That Shapes Us out November 6th.

Tyler Levenson: Yes, please listen to it, buy it, stream it, please. But it's— I'm very excited for this record, and anyone that I've spoken to in an interview setting, everyone has loved it. So it's, it's very good to see that it's being received well from people who are able to listen to it in full and I can have another opinion outside of myself. So that's definitely a great feeling. And I'm gonna ask you guys a question now, all three of y'all. What is your individual favorite song from the album?

KC: Ooh...

Dan: It's still Bad Habits. That was the first track that I heard off this album, and even as many times I've listened to it now, it's— it still hasn't wavered.

Tyler Levenson: Love that.

Aaron: Probably, I don't know, A Thousand Warnings. Like I said, it just kicks things off so well, and like you said, it sounds like it'd be a fantastic set opener too. And so I'm just a sucker for something that just launches right into the intensity.

Tyler Levenson: It was all about the riffs on that one for sure.

Aaron: Mm-hmm.

KC: Yeah, More to Life was a really good one for me. I don't know exactly what it was about it, but just a really great song.

Tyler Levenson: Dude, that's a cool one. And we wrote that very early on, and it just found its way on the record. And it's definitely softer, but it's not soft in a way that you can't feel how heavy the song actually is, you know?

KC: Yeah.

Tyler Levenson: I love that. And it's probably the only song on the record that leans more into like, the rap stuff. Like we have it on other songs, but that one in particular, we wanted that one to shine and be that kind of song.

KC: Yeah, nice.

Dan: Well, thank you very much for joining us, Tyler. We definitely appreciate your time.

Tyler Levenson: Absolutely. This was awesome.

Dan: Well, thank you very much for listening to The Itch podcast. My name is Dan.

KC: I'm KC.

Aaron: And I'm Aaron.

Tyler Levenson: And I'm Tyler from Afterlife.

Dan: And until next time, my bad habits are back at it.

Tyler Levenson: Yeah! Love that.

Aaron: If you enjoyed what you heard in this episode, please subscribe and tell a friend about The Itch.

KC: Check out the show notes for links about the episode and where you can hear us every Sunday night.

Dan: And you can interact with us at itchrocks.com or on Facebook, Instagram, and Gmail, all at Itchrocks, I-T-C-H-R-O-C-K-S.