E331 Amanda Lyberg of Eva Under Fire Takes Us Through Every Song on Villainous

Amanda Lyberg: What's up? It's Amanda from Eva Under Fire, and you're listening to The Itch.

KC: You're listening to The Itch. My name is KC.

Dan: My name is Dan.

Aaron: And I'm Aaron.

Amanda Lyberg: Amanda, Eva Under Fire, hanging out with my Itch peoples.

Aaron: That's right.

Dan: For your tenth appearance, right?

KC: Eleventh.

Amanda Lyberg: I've lost count.

Aaron: Eleven.

Amanda Lyberg: Is this eleven?

Holy smokes!

Aaron: You've been on a two-a-year pace since 2021, so this is number one for this year.

Amanda Lyberg: Right. Yeah, but this time we finally have like new album things to discuss. And huge tour coming up. So like this is actually probably gonna be one of the most interesting deep dive Itch podcasts we've ever had.

Dan: Yeah, I feel like it's going to be the last one before you become a real famous rock star.

Amanda Lyberg: No... Well, you know what? I'm gonna go ahead and say you're right, Dan. You are. This is the last time before we become famous collectively. And then we just keep hanging out after both of us are legitimate rock stars. That's it.

Aaron: There it is.

Dan: I'll accept it.

KC: We'll take it.

Amanda Lyberg: Perfect.

Aaron: Well, I was gonna say what itch we're scratching, but we kind of just addressed it. But I'm gonna say it anyway. So you guys have an album called Villainous that is about to drop. And as a group of guys who are generally considered to just be nice guys, it's, it's kind of appealing, the idea of being villainous once in a while.

Amanda Lyberg: Even nice guys, people judge you. People say stupid things about what you're doing, not doing, what you should be doing, all the things like that. That's kind of what villainous is about, right? Because I don't think anybody looks at this face that I got and is like, yeah, she's a real jerk. Like, no, nobody actually believes that I am villainous. I just don't— I don't have that energy, right? I probably have more like golden retriever energy than anything. But like, but even that, I have had people when push come to shove when it's been a tough situation and everybody's judging me for what I said, what I didn't do, what I should have been doing, what I should be concerned about, what I should, what I should, what I should. I'm tired of should. I don't care. Like, this is my life. This is my creative experience. This is my authentic self. I'm, you know, no longer Eva, right? I know we've talked about that, but like— Yeah. So on the album, there's a song called My Own Name. And it's like, I'm going along this path, right? I'm so grateful now that I've stepped into a more mature space. and in my career, in my adult life, where like, I don't have to pretend anymore. It's so nice. I can just be confident about myself. And if people have something to say about it, it's like good for you. Bye.

Dan: Yeah.

Amanda Lyberg: I can legitimately be unbothered. I'm happy in my golden retriever energy because I genuinely don't have to care about what anybody else thinks. It's so freeing.

Dan: It's the best.

Amanda Lyberg: It's literally the best. And I'm like, cool, yeah, yeah, yeah, gotcha. Also, stop talking.

Aaron: That's awesome.

Amanda Lyberg: You know? Yeah, so I think it's that, right? I think it's like the capacity to be villainous has to be intact, like even when you're the nice guy, right?

Aaron: Yeah, that's right.

KC: Well, before we dive into the record proper, we know the band has experienced some heavy times this year, so we wanted to give you a moment to acknowledge someone who played a huge role in setting things in motion That led to this band, this record, and this conversation. Your friend Eric.

Amanda Lyberg: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for that. Yeah, Eric DeJules, ladies and gentlemen. Man, I— when I first joined my high school band, it was with Eric, you know. So, and actually Rob and I are going to play and like jam with those guys. Like my original like Fall Prey bandmates are getting together to just probably throw together Metallica covers till 2 in the morning tonight. But Eric's birthday is coming up and all of us are kind of in a different space about, you know, like life happens, right? You don't always keep in touch with the people who are very meaningful to you. But yeah, I mean, it threw a lot of things off. So when we were on tour with Butcher Babies in March, we knew that it was kind of coming to a close. Eric had been struggling with stage 4 cancer for like the past year. So we were desperately hoping that we would be home. And we were. And it was incredible. I have never seen a man face down that kind of diagnosis with that kind of stature. It was really humbling to literally know that he was— he knew, and we knew that it was coming. And yet we all like sat together in the room and just talked about anything else, you know? And I think that was powerful. It was inspiring in so many ways to know that those are all the friends that I first found music with. They're all real ones. Push comes to shove, we all still show up. Push comes to shove, we all get in the room together. It felt like a reunion when when we were all in that room together. And then it felt like a reunion again when Dave, our drummer, was also part of a different project during that time. And they just had their first performance in, like, 15 years. And we were all at the show together, all of us from the scene that we didn't know that we had back then, but we absolutely had back then. All of us showed up, you know what I mean?

Dan: Yeah.

Amanda Lyberg: Like, people we haven't seen in 15 years, you know? So, all of that has led to this album. All of the experience of living your dream and sleeping in Walmart parking lots and trying to figure out who you are and figuring out who you're around and whether or not you can genuinely listen to the people that you're around or if they're just there because it's fair weather. Like when you go through things together, you see who shows up and who doesn't.

KC: Yeah.

Amanda Lyberg: So that was really powerful to know that. I've always had a good picker. Since I've been 16 years old, I picked real ones and it's so important.

KC: Well, we'll do something that we have yet to do. So this will be a first and that is to do a deep dive on one of our friends' new projects that are coming out. Villainous, which will be dropping very soon after you hear this on July 10th. And so the opening track on Villainous is the first single, and the lyric videos that have been released so far seem to take place in like a dark futuristic world, almost Blade Runner-esque.

Amanda Lyberg: Yeah, so super intentional, by the way. Love that you noticed that. Appreciate you, friend.

KC: Yeah, I didn't know if that was fully your direction or if the label had anything to do with that. 

Amanda Lyberg: So I want to just throw it to the suits for a second because honestly, I know everybody has their own opinion about labels or whatever. But you know what? This team this time seems very locked in. And I cannot thank the people who have been part of this enough. And some of them have been label people. Absolutely. Like Michael Lombardi for these visualizers.

KC: Yes.

Amanda Lyberg: Absolutely killed it. And like, that's a guy who we've known and been friends with before he was a suit. But— But that said, the creative energy has been massive, and there's been such an effort to support that. And really, I feel supported in that for maybe the first time, certainly the first time like this, where we wanted to build a world with this album. And I think we achieved that.

KC: Yeah. Every time I hear this song, I think of Dave and how he must have had so much fun writing the drum parts for this song.

Amanda Lyberg: Oh, gosh. So, I'll tell you this. Dave has fun playing them. But there was— I think, I think he did have feedback from like the studio and stuff like that. But like when we were building it, it was, it was important for us to be able to like— I mean, sometimes we only had like 2 weeks in LA to crush like 10 songs, right? So some of it was built and programmed. But it was very important that Chris was in the room because he was a drummer first, actually. And that each of the producers who were working on building those tracks were also drummers. So, like parts that you need four arms to play, you know what I mean? Like, we needed it to crush, like, every time. And I think we did. We nailed that.

Dan: Going on to track two, which is called My Own Name. You just kind of briefly touched on it before, and I wanted to touch base real quick on what it was like working with Jon Lundin. We actually just recently had Nathan Aurora on the show, and he said that when him and John got into the studio, they didn't eat, sleep, or do anything for 12 hours. It was just music, and then boom, they had a song at the end of 12 hours. So how was that like for you working with Jon Lundin?

Amanda Lyberg: Yeah, Dude is pretty much a steam engine. Like, that's the first studio where we've been like, we were locked in for 10 hours at a time. Yeah. And I love that because I think any creatives that can just get lost in that process, that's where you're going to find the best stuff, you know?

KC: Yeah.

Amanda Lyberg: And it also, I think, speaks to allowing for creative energy and not feeling like there's such a pattern for things. It's not like an intentional roadmap, right? There's no blueprint, like you have to have this, you have to have that. So I think it was really important for us to start there. My Own Name was one of the first ones that we wrote for this album. And we called up the label and we were like, we have to come back. This is where we need to exist. That was really fun. It was really great to get a chance to work together on this.

Dan: And I really appreciated you bringing in multiple producers because I think it helps the album have different sounds. It doesn't sound very repetitive. Like, every song has its own unique identity. And this song, the subject for it is great. You kind of talked about it. It's your coming out party, splitting from Eva Marie, as well as dealing with fake friends too.

Amanda Lyberg: Yeah, it's like an integration of self, right? Like, I feel like a lot of this album is self-discovery. And we built a world around that, right? And so I kind of get like this, like Bruce Wayne Batman vibe, like here's Gotham, right? This is our version of Gotham. And but there is so much that happens to a villain or an antihero or whatever character arc, right?

Dan: Yeah.

Amanda Lyberg: And each of the songs is representative of that. I think that like Awakening was actually the revelation that you get to after all of that happens. But it felt like a really good place to start the album.

KC: Yeah.

Amanda Lyberg: So it's track one, you know? So it's not like a linear path, right? But each of the songs does represent a different key moment or a core moment in the discovery of becoming and owning the fact that we are all villains in our own right, and that that's not maybe necessarily a bad thing.

KC: Up next, Survive My Scars. This is a song that I hope gets its due as a single, maybe with a feature on like a deluxe edition.

Amanda Lyberg: Dave said that too. Dave has always loved that song, so I'm gonna tell him that you said that.

KC: Well, there's good call and response action. So like we've talked about you doing a song with Lee Jennings of the Funeral Portrait. I feel like he would be a perfect type of voice for this song to join in on some of the lines.

Amanda Lyberg: So— I can't tell you, but I do have plans.

Dan: Okay.

Amanda Lyberg: For Mr. Lee Jennings specifically.

Dan: Yes. And it's got an amazing guitar riff too. I don't know who wrote it, but it's a bitchin' riff.

Amanda Lyberg: It's a great riff. It's such a— I do, I love that song. 'Cause it slams. It slams pretty hard, you know what I mean? But it's also got these breathy moments that feel like they have this great dynamic together. And what's really funny is that each one of those three songs came from a different studio.

Dan: Nice.

Amanda Lyberg: What I am also most proud of is that across so many spaces and so many writers, I feel like this album still feels like it has great connective tissue. Because it speaks to our ability as writers, as a band, you know, to like— I think we were the glue. And we— if we hadn't been as great as we are at what we do, I think it would have felt disjointed going through that many rooms, you know?

KC: Yeah.

Dan: Yeah, I agree. And so moving on to Villainous, you told us three chats ago, right before the main round of the band rebrand shoot in LA, I can't wait to show you guys what I'm working on, and that you scream a lot more on this album. But then to scream with one of the best, Maria Brink, and match her— what's that feel like?

Amanda Lyberg: It feels like I need more rehearsals, Dan. That's what it feels like. That's why I was in my garage by myself yesterday working on it, you know, because, uh, yeah— she's a legend. Absolutely an icon. She's an icon in the metal community. I mean, I've— she's got 20 years, you know, doing what she does. And I think there's just no other perfect feature to go on a track like Villainous. The voice of the Empress of Metal herself, right?

Dan: Mm-hmm.

Amanda Lyberg: Her voice is just so beautifully threatening. She just has that amazing tone that just tells you all the things that— it's a very villainous energy, like, naturally. And then she got involved with the music video and blew my mind. So I— yeah, yes, Maria Brink on that track is just perfect to me. Yeah, no notes, right?

Dan: And I believe it was also directed by your friend Michael Lombardi from The Retaliators, so kind of a full circle moment there.

Amanda Lyberg: We had wanted to work front to back on a project for a long time together. Like, we— he also, like, saved other music videos for us, like jumped in last minute when it didn't come out the way it was supposed to and fixed it, right? So we were like, okay, this time around we want to do everything start to finish. Let's work it from the ground up, you know? Because I called him before we even knew exactly what the single was going to be and what the plan for the album was. I just knew I wanted Michael's energy to be part of it and Brittany Cormack to do costuming as well, because I had worked with both of them. on The Retaliators together. So I handpicked the squad.

Dan: Yeah.

Amanda Lyberg: I think I did a great job.

KC: Definitely. One thing that we absolutely have to talk about is your stunt double in the video, Lorena Abreu, who I've seen for years on the internet because she's a parkour cosplayer. So she does like—

Amanda Lyberg: Legend.

KC: Dora the Explorer and Wednesday Addams, and she's always like dancing and doing crazy things.

Amanda Lyberg: She's amazing.

KC: Yeah. having her be involved was just another wow moment. Like, I've seen her on the internet, and then now knowing that she's in the video, that is just crazy.

Amanda Lyberg: Yeah, it was crazy. I looked at her and was like, can I try to be you? You should not try to be me. Like, this doesn't seem like a good, you know. But also really funny that we both really do, at least in skin tone and haircut and everything else. I was like, I can't believe I'm standing next to you. And she goes, I can't believe I'm standing next to you. It was just such a funny vibe because she is also hilarious and great at what she does. So she and the other stunt actors had a whole choreographed fight scene.

KC: Yeah.

Amanda Lyberg: And then afterward, they handed me the katana, and I— or the samurai sword. And I was like, I am untrained and you're giving me sharp things? And then I figured out the sharp thing was plastic and I was like, oh, this is gonna be fine. But they had to teach me all kinds of cool, you know, the how to roll it like I'm a super sick awesome trained warrior. I am not. But it looked real convincing and I freaking loved— I just love doing my own stunts, which is something Lombardi also knows because I owed myself with the Retaliators. I was like, put me in, coach. And he was super ready to do so.

KC: Yeah, knocked it out of the park.

Amanda Lyberg: It was pretty fun.

Aaron: Well, Villainous seems to have been doing really well for you guys and maybe helping you reach that next level. Also, the single that was released as the title track and with the announcement of the album itself. Next up on our list here, The Words You Say, the most recent of the four singles that have been released so far. I'm curious what the process is like of determining that schedule. And you got a vision in your mind, I'm sure, of which songs being released when and the videos that would come with them to kind of unveil this story, as it were.

Amanda Lyberg: Not at all. I made it foolproof, though. I don't get to make any of those calls. But I had decided a long time ago when we first started writing this album, we collectively turned in all of these songs. I was like, all of this is going to represent the world that we are building.

Dan: Mm-hmm.

Amanda Lyberg: So to me, I think it was important for any one of these songs to be able to tell the story. So I just made sure that it served the the world every time, right? I was like, how does this connect? Ah, that's this puzzle piece. How does this song connect? Ah, this puzzle piece. And so when I handed them the full puzzle, they were like, cool, this is great. So which one do we release first? And I'm like, I don't know, pick a piece. They're all going in the same bucket. You guys cannot mess this up. All of it serves the same world.

Aaron: Perfect.

Amanda Lyberg: Yeah, I mean, whatever order it is, and I kind of visualized it in my brain. And this is— maybe this is just how I decided it wasn't that important to me, in such a way where, like, I didn't want to have an anxiety attack about it, you know what I mean? But if you looked at a villain's lair, they have plotted a map of what's important to them, right? And it's all these little different— and it's not like a linear thing, right? It's all these different pins in various spaces. So I'm like, pick a pin. And so that's kind of how I thought about it. So, yeah, I didn't really have like a linear process as to what I wanted released first. I do have a linear process in the way that I make sense of the story it tells.

Aaron: Hmm.

Amanda Lyberg: But which part of the story comes first doesn't necessarily, I guess, have to take a priority.

Aaron: Does that apply to the tracklist and the sequencing as well, or is that a little bit more—

Amanda Lyberg: Sequencing is totally off, right? Okay, like Awakening is the first track on there, A Violent End is the last track on there, right? That made sense for an album from a listening standpoint. It was just like, of course, this is like the perfect bookend. But Awakening is actually the revelation that you get to after you've gone through all the things that made you a villain.

KC: Yeah.

Amanda Lyberg: The last step is kind of the awakening, right?

KC: Right.

Amanda Lyberg: Like, just went through all of this. Now I accept myself for who I am. I am definitely changed, but not in a bad way. You know, so it's kind of the way that you listen to it is not necessarily the way that I understand it in the real world.

KC: Yeah. A Violent End would have been a really interesting album opener. So yeah, if you inverted them.

Amanda Lyberg: Yeah. But you could have conceptualized it in that way, right? If it was like death to the old self, then you know. So I do think that there is some some variability there that people kind of I hope that listeners will give this entire album like a listen through and see themselves in each one of these spaces. Like, how would it have gone for you? Allow for interpretation and for other people to be like, actually, this would have been the way that I would have plotted it, right? This would have been the thing that I would do in my life based on how I experienced my own self-discovery, right? I hope that they find that.

KC: Yeah. Next up on here, Don't Say I'm Okay. This is the first of two songs that you've been extra hyped that the label shared your enthusiasm on, and you've talked about it in the Patreon group for years now.

Amanda Lyberg: Very proud of that song.

KC: Yeah, lyrically about grief and loss.

Amanda Lyberg: Yeah, yeah. This is— I think there's a lot of that on this album, right? That's the rip your hearts out piece, right? That My Own Name kind of addresses fake friends, and The Words You Say addresses a toxic relationship, and Don't Say I'm Okay addresses grief and loss, and there's several other songs on the record that do. So I do think it's kind of getting into the feels a little bit and just trying to prune your life, to cut out what's not working and process the negative emotions about it. Because you're going to have feelings about it, like learning how to come into your own. I think what's less talked about is everybody wants that, right? But they don't realize that going through it, it's going to hurt.

Aaron: Yeah.

Dan: I really loved that song. you really kind of let loose vocally in that song. Like, you're screaming your ass off and it sounds fantastic. That was probably Hannah's favorite song on the album too.

Amanda Lyberg: Yeah. Figured it out. We figured it out. We got a false chord scream going on, you guys. We are in business. And I think, so the words you say in My Own Name were actually two of the first ones that we wrote for the album, and they both came from Jon Lundin's studio. So when we decided to go with this more like downtuned, guitar sound instrumentally it was just like, this hits so much heavier. But if you throw it way back to our Anchors album, there's some stuff on there where I get screechy and growly and things too. So when I started to think about this new album Villainous as like a self-discovery journey, I was like, I want to incorporate that. I want to go back to that. That felt authentic. when I was young, angsty teenager me. There can be an adult version of that, you know, that just like takes the gloves off and goes at it pretty hard. So I feel like that was the first song where I was like, there's going to be an entire part where it's going to be just scream vocal. And I think it felt like that was the perfect fit.

Aaron: Yeah. Moving on to the next track here. Hello Hollow, one of the few songs, as KC noted here, that has a true Rob solo on it on the album.

Amanda Lyberg: Yeah, yeah, we didn't— we went less, I guess, traditional rock. Like, classic rock has a lot of solos and things like that, and very expressive, and love Rob for that. But like, this, this album was meant to be like more like I think kind of nu metal era, which is where a lot of this rock music started to feel like our music, like our generation's music. So I think that also was kind of a song choice, like song by song, we were kind of like, do we need it? Do we want one? Our group chat was called Boomers, Bends, and Bentleys because it was just like the boomer type of like— so we got teased for that. But it serves a purpose, I think, in, several areas. When you want to do like a solo, it should be something that's expressive and adds to the song. But we really felt like there wasn't a lot of need for that on this album. But that song in particular felt like— I mean, clearly the emotion of that song, right? It being a ballad and kind of— a dark energy felt like a solo would be a nice touch.

Dan: Agreed. The next song is Dark Soul, and I wanted to start off by saying that I think that this song is a great example of your vocal power and just your vocal range. And what stands out is your own distinct tone is coming through more and more. So I'm kind of curious, how much of that was a deliberate artistic choice versus something that just happened organically as you recorded?

Amanda Lyberg: I think there was both. I think the layer when we were writing the songs was just whatever served the song in the moment, right? Hello Hollow, for example, I brought to the band and it was just a voice memo that I had actually recorded. Yeah, the chorus of that was exactly what I recorded in 2018, just me and my little metronome when my father had passed away, you know? But then like Dark Soul was written to be a little bit more of like a doom dance sort of vibe. So I was reacting to the bed that we had started. The actual instrumentation was kind of created before the vocal. But I allow that. I love that. And I allow that to bring me into the energy of what does the song need? What is the mood? What is the tone? So it, I think, explores creatively that way. But I love what you said, Dan. Thank you so much for that huge compliment. It was very important to us who mixed and mastered the album because I wanted them to leave the expression in my vocal take on there, right?

Aaron: Mm-hmm.

Amanda Lyberg: So this particular person that we got this time around, I hope to have them for my entire career. He did an amazing job. Because what happens is everything is mixed and mastered and then my vocal is mixed and mastered on top of that as like its own separate thing. So it sits really nicely above that and you can hear all of the breakup and the breathing and the expression of things, and it's made very obvious almost in that song specifically. So as a matter of fact, Rob was like, "Are you louder on that song than any other song?" I was like, "Maybe," but it sounds great. Right? So, and that one has a lot of like like lilting tones, like da so is always kind of like this. Like you fall in and out of the the space because the song kind of moves in that wave.

Dan: Yeah. I think it's just an incredible song. And but the whole album really does do you justice in giving you that distinct tone and showing off how your voice is different. Because I think so many artists, especially nowadays, no matter if you're female or male, you're always going to be compared to somebody else that's been in the game. And so a lot of times like, oh, she sounds like such and such. And so it's very hard to say that about you on this album. Like you don't really sound like anybody else. There's tones obviously that you could say you have influences from, but there's no way that you sound like anybody else.

Amanda Lyberg: Yeah. Thank you so much. Because I agree with you. I think there's moments, right? Where like, even Dark Soul, like the thing that I did in the end of the song, it was just like a little scat. Am I a lost control? When I finished that track, Chris was like, okay, Alanis Morissette. Like, it was like very, like just the way that I, you know what I mean? Like it was accidental. I was like, oh, that's a cool reference. So I mean, you could probably hear everything from Alanis Morissette to Christina Aguilera to maybe Maria Brink on this album. Like legit Maria Brink, but also like the influence that I have in my scream tone. The very first time I was letting that rip on live stages, people were like, oh, you sound like Maria. And I was like, that's a huge compliment, thank you.

KC: Yeah, you went God mode on that song.

Amanda Lyberg: I'm not mad at it. I'm not mad at it.

Dan: And the song itself is a personally vulnerable song. So, you know, what happens when you let the dark parts of yourself show through more often?

Amanda Lyberg: Yeah. Yeah, I think that I wanted to explore that because that's kind of the thing about when you do something that's completely out of character, when you start saying things that are completely out of character. I hear it from others when I sit with them in therapy and I hear it from other friends of mine and family I've talked to about it. I experienced it in myself when I had to start cutting people off and shutting things down and calling people out. And like, I'm not usually that person. I have the capacity to go there, but I don't like that. I didn't know what to do with it. It makes people anxious. They're like, I don't— this is not usually how I roll. And it's like, well, yeah, but desperate times, desperate measures, right? The situation called for this. Because of the extreme, you had to become extreme. And then sometimes people don't recognize that in themselves, and it's a scary thing, you know. Is this wrong of me to do that? Is it okay that I'm responding in this way? I don't know if I like this side of me, right? I've never been put in this position before. So I, I kind of— that song was me looking at a mirror and seeing that darker part of me going I don't know if I can let you stay, right? That's one of Rob's favorite lines, in the bridge, it's like, I needed you, but I don't know if you stay if you're gonna destroy who I am.

KC: Yeah.

Amanda Lyberg: Deeply reflective.

KC: Definitely. Yeah. Up next, Gasoline. There's three dancey upbeat songs towards the end of the album, and one thing that I noticed about Gasoline, usually you layer your vocal parts, but this is one of the few songs that I wasn't entirely sure if there was a background vocal that was a male voice. Can you confirm or deny that?

Amanda Lyberg: Yeah, yeah, that's layered in there for sure. Sometimes— so Chris actually can scream. He gets like short bursts of energy and can do it like in the room vocally, but we don't do that live because he would absolutely not be able to talk afterwards. But yeah, I think Chris is layered in there and there might be another of vocal that was on there from— I think, was it from one of the guys? It might have been from the producer, actually.

KC: That's what I was wondering. Yeah.

Amanda Lyberg: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, sometimes it's an added layer that gets mixed in there with me. But I think that specifically for this song, again, anything that serves the song, you know? So, I also want to tell people that like, come see us live because we do a lot of cool layers on the album and then we strip it back for live, for what we actually do. So I think it's cool because it sounds a little different live. But I think that, even just that, the way that it comes in, I'm the gasoline, like, that's highly affected, almost like some sort of— it's more of an effect than it is my vocal at that point. You know what I mean? But it creeps in such a satisfying way.

KC: Mm-hmm.

Amanda Lyberg: So you kind of got to figure out all of those layers. It can really add to the recording. But when you go live, I think it's very important to us that backing tracks stay backing. And I am the person that figures out like, if there's a scream that needs to be there, then I just, I carry that. If there's shouts in the background, then the guys have backup mics. So these are the things that we navigate.

Aaron: Yeah. Next up is Murder Scene, which definitely is one of my favorites on the album, and I think one of the main reasons is, whereas most of the tracks are starting with either the riff the beat sinking in, this starts straight up with the vocals and with a line that really pulls you in as a listener. I feel like that was a very, very catching choice right there.

Amanda Lyberg: Oh, love that. Thank you.

Aaron: Yeah, it differentiates the song as well as like if someone says, if I'm dead on the doorstep, like, oh wait, hold on, this song's starting with a dead body. Let's let's see where it goes from there.

Amanda Lyberg: So that's— but I'm so glad that you caught that. Thank you for that. Because truly, I wanted it to be shocking. I wanted it to be— sounds absurd, right? Sounds extreme. Sound like, how could anybody just step over a body laying in their doorway? But I feel like within our society, all of these expectations, all this pressure, all this, right? It feels like everybody's out to get you. It feels like everybody's out to get me, to almost to the point of murder. And it's so casual. People are just like, well, that's just how the world is. No, no, it shouldn't. It shouldn't be. It shouldn't be that. What do you mean? People are dying. People are really like literally, and some people are doing it themselves.

Aaron: Mm-hmm.

Amanda Lyberg: Trying to keep up, trying desperately to be everything that they're expected to be. And they're not eating and they're not sleeping and they're not— and they're hurting themselves because of this. And so I wanted it to be a shock, right? Because I can't— I can't necessarily— I can tell you guys that because you're my friends. I could freak out about it here and crash out about it here. But I literally sit with people and talk about these things every day. And so then I was like, what is the thing that's gonna click for someone else?

KC: Mm-hmm.

Amanda Lyberg: Right? And it's like, if you had a dead body on your doorstep and you just stepped over it, That's how it feels out here. And they went, oh, that's, that's kind of big. Hang on a second. Absolutely. I wanted that energy. I wanted the listener to be like, that's, that seems—

Aaron: I think you got it. Yeah, I think it worked.

Amanda Lyberg: Thank you. Yeah. Like, what did we— like, what are we talking about? It's like an anxiety attack, a panic attack. But it feels like dying. It does. Yeah, it's great. That's crazy, right? And yeah, I think that was a part of my self-discovery too was like, I don't necessarily have all of that. I haven't gone through like a gamut of mental health disorders or crises or things like this. But I've been through the wringer in other capacities. But I feel like most people would say that once you hit adulthood, and things get rough out here, and you don't know what to do with that, it feels crushing, right? And I'm like, that has to go on there. That has to be a thing where we can normalize this and tell other people like, hey, you're valid for feeling that way. It's scary, you know?

KC: Yeah.

Aaron: After that comes Safe Word, which is a song that's not maybe about what you might think it would be from just hearing the title. Also, as we've maybe run into the ground a little bit here, but, you know, with good reason, another vocal performance that just really shows your versatility.

Amanda Lyberg: Thank you. Safe Word was cool. Safe Word was definitely— I think that when we were— yes, we did write that with Jon Lundin. It was this— I mean, I grew up listening to hip-hop and R&B too. So I feel like that was a little bit of what I wanted the chorus to reflect, was that that type of vocal movement over a rock song felt really cool to me and felt really kind of fresh to me. But I wanted it to also be like this older sister who is, like, telling people about cautionary tales. Like the stories that are told about the devil out there, like watch what's happening and see before you jump in and do what everybody else is doing. Like, watch what's happening and see if it's worth it to you, you know? And honestly, I wrote that song about hookup culture because, I don't think young people understand, or anybody really. I mean, I've seen people, people my age, they get divorced and then they go out there and they figure out it's empty, you know? Like, you have to be careful who you're sleeping with. You got to be careful who you let that close to you. Because if you just want funsies with no feelings, I mean, you could do that, but eventually that catches up to you and it becomes a lifestyle and it becomes empty and you don't know because then you might go, oh, now I have feelings but that person doesn't, or I've given myself over and that person doesn't understand what I'm giving. And now we wind up— I've heard these stories, right? These cautionary tales about like, hey, it started as a one-night stand 20 years ago, and then we had a kid together, and then all of a sudden it became like this life that I didn't expect, right? These people wind up in my office. So I want people to know that, like, I get that you want to try to be casual, but stop trying to be that cool. It's not casual, and it doesn't have to be, you know what I mean? So Safe Word is how I conceptualized hookup culture. Like, I don't know. I hope all that made sense, but it was just my rant. It goes against like, it doesn't have to be casual. This can be meaningful and powerful, and you don't have to just say, oh yeah, no big deal. That's a huge deal.

Aaron: Yeah, absolutely.

Dan: So moving on to Teeth, I wanted to start off by saying I'm not the best at reading into song meanings, as we discovered when we talked about Unstoppable when it came out.

Amanda Lyberg: But I love your interpretation. Completely different.

Dan: So when I listen to Teeth, I feel like it's kind of dealing with your vanity and kind of what you talked about earlier with Murder Scene and everybody telling you how to be and how to look or how you should act or whatever. And so I feel like that's kind of what Teeth is about. Am I off on that, or—

Amanda Lyberg: No, I think you nailed it this time. This is walking in there like, do you know that you're the baddie that you actually are, you know what I mean? But that's not just meant to be a confidence for like women, but that's a confidence in general. Like, when people tell you that you need to be so humble and so casual and so unbothered. And so, no, you don't have to do any of that. You can be confident and walk into a room and understand that what you bring is exactly what you needed to bring and nothing else. No more, no less. I do think that Teeth specifically for me being a woman in an industry where there's a lot of male voices directing the process, but also just existing in a world where there's a lot of male energy directing a lot of the processes, right? You talk about corporate America, you talk about the medical field, you could talk about, you know, like it's varied, unfortunately, where things are minimized and downplayed. And I just wanted a song where I just tell you that I mean what I say. And I know that that's valuable. So when I smile, I want you to see my teeth. And I'm not ashamed of you knowing that that is supposed to be threatening. I am smiling at you while also daring you to not believe what I'm telling you. Because I have every intention of fulfilling that.

Dan: Sick.

Amanda Lyberg: And the dream, right? The dream, like you— They want— I'd say they, in a way, to suggest society builds this nice pretty construct for everyone and says you should be within these lines, and inside of these boxes you will feel safe and happy and fulfilled. And that's a lie.

Aaron: Mm-hmm.

Amanda Lyberg: That's a lie. It's a lie. It's not secure anymore, right? It's not sufficient. anymore. So they look at you crazy when you say you want to chase your dreams, but like, what else do I have to bet on? Like, why wouldn't I trust self over trust construct? Trust construct? Are you kidding me? Gas is $6 a gallon here, you know what I mean? Every time I leave Kroger, it's $300. Like what are you talking about? You want to pay me $15 an hour to do what?

KC: Right.

Amanda Lyberg: Die? Yeah. Because I can't alone. But by the way, because you can't raise kids on that and you can't. I think that is crazy. Like, I think that's crazy. So when people call me crazy, I'm like, sure. Do you want a picture?

Aaron: Right.

Dan: Yeah.

Amanda Lyberg: What are we talking about? You know, but at this point, I am that enraged at how far we have fallen. This construct was supposed to be something that we could count on. It is what our forefathers told us about. My grandpa still believes it. You know, and I'm like, I love you, but you are so long out of the game. You know, you think it's crazy that I get in this van and go on tour with Five Finger Death Punch. And I'm like, if you only knew. And you know what? I've stuck it out so long that they stopped doubting and they started asking questions because I've proven after being in this band for how many years now? That I'm not going anywhere. This is not right. This is over 10 years of my life now. And they're like, I mean, there's something to this. Yeah, right. So this is what they, what they mean when they say, oh, it's only cringe until like it works, right?

KC: Hmm. Yeah.

Amanda Lyberg: You put your foot down long enough, people are gonna start asking you questions. They're just gonna start looking at you different in like a good way, you know, because they're threatened by your ideas at first and they want to doubt and, you know, disbelieve and diminish and whatever it is, because you're doing something crazy. No, you're just doing something outside the box that they don't understand. And if you do it long enough, eventually they're going to start asking questions because maybe you're onto something.

Dan: Yeah.

Amanda Lyberg: Anyway, welcome to the Villainous era.

KC: We got one more to go.

Dan: Yeah, one more.

KC: We've reached the Violent End.

Aaron: Yep.

Amanda Lyberg: We sure have.

KC: Final track on the Villainous album. This is the second of the two that you were hyped that the label shared your hopes for, and also one that you've talked about on Patreon for years. So—

Amanda Lyberg: I don't think the label understood it at first, and then the rest of this world-building thing happened and they go, okay, you know what, I kind of get it, I get it. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, so even people that are on your same team might not understand the full process at first, and that's fine. But, like, A Violent End had to be on this album.

KC: Yeah.

Amanda Lyberg: What was your take? I'm curious. Like, you guys have a lot of energy about a lot of these other songs. So I am curious about what you thought when you first heard that one.

Dan: That's what I was just getting ready to say. It probably is one of your most brutal, heavy songs yet, musically, vocally, and lyrically.

Amanda Lyberg: It starts with a breakdown. Like, we have never— That's ridiculous. Like, me, I'm not metal mama legend. I'm not baddie energy stepping onto the scene like Maria Brink. I don't— I am not Spiritbox. Courtney's out of my league. But I'm like, I felt something so viscerally that I finally needed to just let her rip. and needed to be my most threatening, my most bold version of myself. And that was the song that felt like it was just time. You know, even just talking about the self-discovery journey, I get heated about it, you know what I mean? But there is nothing that will burn me more than learning about someone who has taken advantage of children. And that was what happened on that song. I watched something on Netflix. It was like Quiet on Set. And that was disgusting for me and terrifying for me. And for me, just as a person, but also as a woman and as a therapist, I'm like, I can't.

Dan: Yeah.

Amanda Lyberg: I can't. I can't. I can't. I needed to walk away. I needed to take breaks. I couldn't look away, but I also couldn't calm myself. All of my coping skills went out the door. I was not okay, in the worst way possible. And then everything with all these crazy Epstein files and everything else that's happening in the world. And I'm just like, if I hear another word about it, I want to just rip someone's face off. Like, in zero world, in zero capacity, is there any compassion from me toward a person who has done that.

KC: Mm-hmm.

Amanda Lyberg: I can't, like, I can't, it's not me. I could never—I couldn't work with a person if I knew that that was what it was. You know what I mean? I just— you have to know your own boundaries and your own limits. And when it comes to hurting children, that's my line. You know what I mean? I will simply take them and run very far away from you, and then try not to turn around and chop your face off when I get them somewhere safe. Like, I just can't. I can't. I think of my niece. It just viscerally was like, that, that was the track I needed. I needed an outlet. And then we were going in the studio and I was like, perfect. That's my outlet, you know? So I just— that kind of stuff makes my skin crawl. So that was where I needed to exorcise that demon.

Aaron: I mean, you can feel it. I feel like that track, as you're talking about the subject matter, I think the title is such a 100% perfect accurate description of the content of the song as well as its placement as well as its heaviness. I love whenever I hear a band do a thing that they haven't done before that I didn't know they had in them. And so that's probably why that ends up being one of my favorites, because I'm like, that song is shocking.

Dan: You're like, wait, we know her.

Aaron: Well, yeah. And then it's like, you think of so how many albums end with an acoustic song or a softer ballad type of thing. And it's like, how about we get the most brutal of the whole album? And that's the final seconds of the whole thing. Like, we're going out with the biggest bang right here.

Amanda Lyberg: Yep. Here's the kill shot. Get ready. Yeah, yeah. That whole album and the energy that it brought is now going to translate to us getting on stage. Like, I am so excited about these live shows. I can't even tell you. Not only are we ready for new music, but the energy and the emotional meaning behind this entire album is like, we want that to be the energy that we step on stage with, which is why we've kind of like, hey, look, we did the pretty shiny glitter makeup and the funsies onesie with Chris's guitar, you know what I mean? Like, so it's just—

Dan: Yeah.

Amanda Lyberg: This is refined. This is like we've lived a little and we needed to let people know that we're here and we're very serious about what we do and what we say and why we play what we play. And I think that it's a moment of also solidarity with the crowd that like, we see you, we hear you, we get it. We have also been through things and we don't want to just come up here and pretend like nothing's wrong. We just want to rage about it together.

KC: Yeah.

Amanda Lyberg: And I think that that's way more powerful and way more relatable than what we were doing. on album one. Album one, we were still trying to figure it out. I think we got it now.

KC: Yeah, I think so too.

Aaron: Because we're running out of time, I can't unfortunately dwell too much on the live shows, but I do want to note, you guys are about to go out with Five Finger Death Punch starting in July and keeping you busy through like October. You guys are going to be everywhere. You're going to be in Tinley Park by me. You're going to be at Riverport by Dan and KC. You're gonna be at Pine Knob, which I know is a big deal for you. You're gonna be at freaking Red Rocks, which I just experienced for the first time last week, and it's phenomenal.

Amanda Lyberg: Insane.

Aaron: These are gonna be some stages for you guys to rage out on. It's gonna be pretty awesome.

KC: Yeah.

Amanda Lyberg: I can't wait. I can't wait. It does— we got two legs of that tour. So for us to be able to do this album that we're so proud of and then go take it to the world in that kind of capacity. Don't listen to anybody, what they tell you about what you're supposed to be doing, what you're not supposed to be doing. Don't listen to anybody. Chase your dreams. I mean, it's a rough road out here, but it's worth it. So worth it.

Dan: Yeah.

Aaron: Yeah. There you go. I think that's the note we've got to close on.

Amanda Lyberg: Yeah. Much love, you guys. Thank you so much always for having me. Itch podcast, Eva Under Fire, forever besties.

KC: Yeah.

Aaron: Yeah, that's right.

Dan: So Villainous is out July 10th. We'll definitely be out there rocking with you on tour. Thank you very much for listening to The Itch. My name is Dan.

KC: I'm KC.

Aaron: I'm Aaron.

Amanda Lyberg: And I'm Amanda. We'll see you guys the next time, whenever number 12 hits.

Dan: That's right, it'll be the holidays.

Amanda Lyberg: Yes, there you go.

Dan: And until next time, it's a violent end.

Aaron: If you enjoyed what you heard in this episode, please subscribe and tell a friend about The Itch.

KC: Check out the show notes for links about the episode as well as our new music playlist and where you can hear us every Sunday night.

Dan: And you can interact with us at itchrocks.com or on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Gmail, all at Itchrocks. I-T-C-H-R-O-C-K-S.

KC: Boom. All right, that was awesome.

Aaron: We got you right at 2, so you don't even have to be late to the next one.

Amanda Lyberg: Oh my gosh, you guys are perfect. I appreciate you guys so much. Thank you, thank you. This was very fun. I enjoyed it because this is the first time that I've been able to deep dive the entire record. I think we did a good job staying on task. We did.

Aaron: That's what we're hoping for. We're like, how can we do this whole thing in this time period?

Amanda Lyberg: Perfect. See, we got it. Thank you.

Aaron: We did it.

Amanda Lyberg: Much love. All right, you guys. Well, have a great one. I'll see you out there. If nothing else, I'm gonna try to get my stuff together so I can actually do my Patreon thing. But I'll see you guys real soon.